From the transcript of "Episode 039: The B-Side of Software Development with Scott Hanselman" in the "Greater than Code" series of podcasts (dated 11 July 2017):

JESSICA: Yeah. Also, I think systems thinking is both the biggest thing that we're coming to in code and that helps us more than anything with creating software systems. It’s also a fascinating thing that’s coming out of code because we finally have the opportunity to really study systems because we can change them so fast. My secret hope – well, it's not very secret – is the software industry can change the world by teaching all of us more about systems thinking.

SCOTT: I think that those are very reasonable things to hope for. I think that we need to catch the kids before they're 10 because after having now raised two kids up to 11, I realized that a 10-year head start is an eternity. You can’t snatch a 20-year old out of school in a trade and make them the same developer. You could make them developers, put them in a bootcamp but they will be different people with different paths. It's hard to teach systems thinking if one has spent 20 years of their life not thinking about systems. Bootcamps will teach you 'for' loops and syntax but you'll always be a little bit behind, unless it’s naturally coming to you. My kids can't code. It’s too early. I keep them off the computer as much as possible.

JESSICA: But they can problem solve.

SCOTT: They can problem solve. They are systems thinking. I have conversations with my nine-year old because we listen to a podcast in the car, listen to Marketplace which is his favorite podcast. He will talk to you about currency fluctuations and how the dollar here goes against South African Rand and stuff like that and why those things matter, but he couldn't write 'for' loops to save his life. I would argue that they can pick up the syntax at some point but you have to get systems thinking early. We need to teach systems thinking at first grade and second grade.

ASTRID: I really like the focus on the systems thinking and the problem solving because I think it is way more inclusive. I think there are a lot of people who are very intimidated by the idea of trying to learn how to code, but they are solving problems and making decisions all the time, and I don't think that they realize that those things are related. They think they're very separate things and they don't see that if they can bring them together, it's a very powerful thing.